Curse

Master a la cantha · Jul 24, 2008, 11:33 AM // 11:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Blade From Hell

The fact of the matter is that 1002 rating is top 1k and if you cant make that then i doubt this rp thing matters to you anyways. RP was never designed to be used for ppl to buy fow on pve chars, it was a mistake by anet. RP was suppossed to reflect pvpers who were good, and being able to get rp armor was a reflection of skill in ATs. The system got abused, it got fixed. Dont whine, this fix is good and was needed.

I think you are 100% right

What is it 1002 rating to get on the ladder? thats 1 rated win. If your rating is 996 or whatever, theres still ladder games, you can get faction and experience from there, if you read what anet said when they released ATs, they were for competitive play, and ladder matches for practice

DutchSmurf · Jul 24, 2008, 11:48 AM // 11:48

It is a bad fix. Yes, if you are not on the ladder you probably don't deserve the points, but who are we (or Anet) to tell who has the right to get points and who doesn't? Just like basically everything Anet has done the last year(s), it is something that goes around the issue instead of fixing it. This doesn't target AFK guilds only, it takes all kinds of other guilds with it.
There are tons of better ways to fix it, even ways that don't involve much work. The easiest being just removing the rewards for being there. Others being adding a certain amount of kills on players you need to make. This is just typical Anet finding the easy way out without just removing something they added before.

Sai Rith · Jul 24, 2008, 11:57 AM // 11:57

I agree this is possibly the best thing they have done in awhile. If you are below 1000, then you shouldn't be ATing yet.

Whammo · Jul 24, 2008, 01:19 PM // 13:19

Now i can't afk my fow QQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQ

Ego · Jul 24, 2008, 01:25 PM // 13:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whammo

Now i can't afk my fow QQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQ

You have to many already. ;D

So apparently [Oi] gonna register guilds just to ruin it for people. :[

moriz · Jul 24, 2008, 01:39 PM // 13:39

so... what are they going to do? field bloodspike teams?

Ego · Jul 24, 2008, 02:03 PM // 14:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

so... what are they going to do? field bloodspike teams?

It won't change the win/losses for anyone but it will be just the same problem.

Facing afk/non serious people half the rounds.

Isn't that why they made up with this change for starters? So they would go away?

Lycan Nibbler · Jul 24, 2008, 02:34 PM // 14:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zabe

I think you are American.

Incorrect, but I can see why you might think that. The worst times(lowesdt numbers), tend to be in the mornings Euro time (late night USA) from what I've seen the past few months.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zabe

You sound pretty much a guy who doesnt play AT's

also incorrect - as stated before, its a rewards points system and as such should apply to everyone who competes - not just if you are above an arbitrary level. As Ive said,one solution would be to remove all RP's from the ATs - the reward of getting QP's for the mAT should be sufficient.

Also, from what was mentioned about afk's still entering, then my original suggestion about making two tiers (divisions) would stop this being a problem to the elite guilds. Anyone who won constantly in "divB" would end up in "divA" anyway.

As an aside, how quickly do guilds get Rated Matches these days as the last time we tried it took ages...

Shendaar · Jul 24, 2008, 03:07 PM // 15:07

So many whiners. The fact is that unless you are rank 5000 or something, all you have to do is win 1 AT match and you should end up in the top 1000 right away. If you can't even win 1 RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing match whether it's during an AT or regular ladder play, then you don't deserve to get any rewards.

People don't get medals for being terrible IRL.

frojack · Jul 24, 2008, 04:08 PM // 16:08

Sounds like a good change to me. Stop sucking at the game if you want 'certain rewards' for playing? Makes sense. Seriously though, 1k level play is not incredibly hard at all. With a couple weeks solid work, any guild should be able to compete at that level fairly successfully, regardless of prior experience.

For those people saying '...it should be removed for everyone...'. Uh... No. Such a suggestion would infer that all gvg teams are/should be equal and yet by virtue of there being a ranking system, we are not. Why then should they all be treated as such? Why shouldn't teams that achieve more than others be rewarded over those who do not? You play a team like StP in an AT for example and the difference in quality is vivid.
Unlike stupid titles, gvg rank is something that needs to be maintained. People have to work to retain whatever level they achieve. In fact, if pvp titles had such a mechanic they may not actually be a complete joke.

Reward points like Moko wrote, are just that: A damn reward. People actually asume they should just get these for turning up? You don't get balthazar for just turning up to a pvp match. Why the hell should reward points be any different in this respect?

The fact that this is even a discussion is disgusting...

lord of all tyria · Jul 24, 2008, 04:32 PM // 16:32

If you suck, play for fun and not RPs? Or beat some ladder people to get to the top 1000.

Makkert · Jul 24, 2008, 04:55 PM // 16:55

I have to agree with the OP.
Stopping abuse, fine. But don't diss the people that play the game, whatever rank they are.
I hardly consider Tournament Reward Points 'medals' as some suggest.
More like a reward for playing the game.

moriz · Jul 24, 2008, 04:56 PM // 16:56

a slightly more elegant solution, i think, is to make anyone finishing out of the top 8 one reward point per game played, and dramatically scale up the points earned from 8 to 1. that way, while you can still afk through it all, your payoff will be tiny. it will place more emphasis in actually competing, which is something ATs need right now.

Apok Omen · Jul 24, 2008, 05:04 PM // 17:04

Or just make it so they have to actually win a round to recieve RP's.

I mean, why reward someone for doing nothing? That would be like giving someone a trophy just because they showed up and spent all their time with their thumb up somewhere...

Shendaar · Jul 24, 2008, 05:38 PM // 17:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Makkert

I have to agree with the OP.
I hardly consider Tournament Reward Points 'medals' as some suggest.
More like a reward for playing the game.

Why should you get rewarded for merely playing the game? Your reward for playing the game should be just having fun. You shouldn't get anything from a competitive tournament if you can't even compete with the worse.

DarkNecrid · Jul 24, 2008, 05:54 PM // 17:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by moko

i havn't noticed, but if our tournament actually got the PvE players interested in PvP and ATs, then it truely is a bad idea. but i was just judging from my past experiences of guilds i've seen in the ATs.

if that really is the case, they need to remove the 15 additional RP for competing.

I've seen quite a bit of the PvE guilds (who weren't smurfs) playing on ladder and in ATs, but since they aren't so good they aren't really in the 1000 range yet, trying to get into their groove.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

No it doesn't, anyone who isn't completely braindead and actually tries to win will have 1000+ rating anyway.

It's not the most elegant fix, but it should get the job done.

Yes, I am sure those guys with absolutely 0 experience (or minimum experience) are going to easily get 1000 rating. A lot of these people that I am talking about have experience in....RA and AB. Not exactly the best places to have experience in GvG. They at best know the basics of each map, and that is about it. The only way they are going to get 1000 rating is if they get paired up with joke matches on the ladder. TAM is a pretty strong guild (for a team mostly of PvErs) and are below 1000.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fowlero

As has been said, there are very few guilds that compete in AT's that are not on the ladder that are actually playing (seriously) and not afking/pissing about.

If you want to play them to "get better" this isn't stopping you.

Plus it's barely hard to get onto the ladder.

You're being silly. PvPers who are completely focused on PvP want to "get better". Most PvErs want to get better and get something for doing it. (after all, PvE is all about the reward. They carry this mentality over to PvP, too.).

It's easier to get them to PvP when they are getting something for it. Is that to say they are all like that? No. But I'm fairly sure it's going to be harder to go LETS GO AT.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sai Rith

I agree this is possibly the best thing they have done in awhile. If you are below 1000, then you shouldn't be ATing yet.

You don't get to set that line, and I don't think Anet should either.

The reason these guilds AT is because you're getting a series of serious matches, with a variety of guilds, with a variety of builds all in one setting. Doing something that you know other people are doing and love is exciting! It's a good opportunity to learn a ton of stuff AND get rewarded for learning and winning at the same time. It's like the ladder except better because everyone is guaranteed to be giving it their all (if they aren't afking.) But PvErs who are branching out into PvP still need this reward beyond just faction if they are going to invest that kind of time into a PvP tournament.

I'd agree with you guys if we were just talking about PvPers, but since the Guru tournament and since Anet has been failing pretty hard in PvE deals apparently, more and more people who don't have that experience are trying these things, and we shouldn't be willing to turn these people off (MORE PEOPLE FOR THE COMMUNITY) just because "well if you don't suck you'll have 1000 rating anyways."

There are more elegant fixes that don't harm any legit players, and you know it.

Tyla · Jul 24, 2008, 06:05 PM // 18:05

To be honest, I'm not half-arsed about this.

Could've been done better, however.

Orange Milk · Jul 24, 2008, 06:18 PM // 18:18

I'm not sold on the Idea, I think Bans would have be fun to see

Honestly I would have kept everything almost the same.

You start off with 15 Rp's (rewarded upon full completion of the tourny)

Win a match you get 3 more RP's

Those two sound familure?

Now the switch would be, if you loose a match, you loose 3 Rp's.

Currently AFK guilds are/were earning 15-21 RP's on average for nothing.

This process would reduce that to 0-9 RP's on average. Unfortunatly still rewards forlks for just showing up, But Rewards winners more and losers less.

There are guilds not on the ladder that do AT and are there to try and win/improve, not just collect RP's. If people are to be encouraged to compete in PvP then a reward of somekind needs to in place. Think about it, your in a PvE oriented guild, you guys do so scrims, a hand full of ladder matches but your around 970 rating because the guild has been around a while and has dabled in GvG in the past. So you enter an AT and get rolled by a couple of top 100 guilds but win a match or two vs like skilled guilds. You finish 12th or so and your only reward is being called "Go back to Norn Farming PvE nub" Handing out a couple RP's to folks legitimately trying should be done.

There should never be rewards for simply showing up, but there needs to be rewards of ecouragement of somekind to get people more interested in PvP/GvG, after all, 3rd place does get a trophy.

Really Bans would have been the best route, Bans tend to wake folks up. But the only way to see who is REALLY afking and whos not is for Dev's to watch each match and reward RP's at a later date, I doubt ANet would spare the time/money to pay a Dev or two to do that.

I dunno, I contridict myself alot in this post so who knows wtf I'm saying. I wonder now if I even had a point tbh.

Ec]-[oMaN · Jul 24, 2008, 08:03 PM // 20:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

You're being silly. PvPers who are completely focused on PvP want to "get better". Most PvErs want to get better and get something for doing it. (after all, PvE is all about the reward. They carry this mentality over to PvP, too.).

Hence why it's time for a change, I've always brought up the mentality issues surrounding PvE players and PvP. Having PvE'ers sign up for AT's and getting rewards for not doing anything was a mistake in the first place.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

It's easier to get them to PvP when they are getting something for it. Is that to say they are all like that? No. But I'm fairly sure it's going to be harder to go LETS GO AT.

If they wish to receive material things and or currency for partaking in PvP so be it, but this does nothing good for the PvP community, it doesn't draw in any players worth a piss, we will quickly see how many of these r1k+ guilds still partake in AT's after this change. I'd take a wild guess and say less than 10% will continue, good riddance.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

You don't get to set that line, and I don't think Anet should either.

Why not? It's their game after all?

Again, if all the r1k+ guilds aren't just doing ATs for the fast rank or for gained experience, their presence overall means nothing to all the sub r1k guilds who take GvG and PvP abit more serious. People have been getting cookies for a long time now, too bad the cookie monster arrived months late.

The problem needed to be addressed, whether people see it as the right way, that's up to them. There was truly nothing good about the previous abuse within the AT system, all it did was piss of the already dedicated serious PvP community; what's left of them that is........

Snow Bunny · Jul 24, 2008, 08:08 PM // 20:08

I have a question, it might seem novice, but I'll ask anyway.

Do ATs (I suppose dailys) accelerate rank/rating at all if you win?

Having thought about this more I believe it's a clumsy, albeit beneficial change, but I'd like to know this as I have my own guild (pve guild

) in mind.